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	<title>Comments on: Uncovering The Real Fakes At Last</title>
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	<link>http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/</link>
	<description>The Standard In Live Release Analysis</description>
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		<title>By: DLee</title>
		<link>http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/comment-page-1/#comment-908</link>
		<dc:creator>DLee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 00:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/#comment-908</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As for different brands/manufacturers of CD-R&#039;s, it was Mitsui (not necessarily just their gold ones) that used to have the reputation as being the No. 1 best, with Taiyo Yuden being a close 2nd, so I used Mitsui just about exclusively to burn backups of Pro-CD-R&#039;s (and for burning other discs as well), until 2003 when I quit doing so after they started becoming completely unplayable in one of my CD players.  Since then I&#039;ve switched to Taiyo Yuden.  However, Fuji (FujiFilm) CD-R&#039;s made in Japan were manufactured by Taiyo Yuden, although unfortunately now these days apparently all Fuji discs are cheap-quality ones made in Taiwan.  And other brands such as Maxell &amp; Memorex, which at least at one time in the past have had the reputation of making possibly the worst-quality CD-R&#039;s of all among well-known major brands, have even had their discs manufactured at least at some point in recent years, possibly even still now these days, by much more reputable CD-R manufacturers such as Taiyo Yuden.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for different brands/manufacturers of CD-R&#8217;s, it was Mitsui (not necessarily just their gold ones) that used to have the reputation as being the No. 1 best, with Taiyo Yuden being a close 2nd, so I used Mitsui just about exclusively to burn backups of Pro-CD-R&#8217;s (and for burning other discs as well), until 2003 when I quit doing so after they started becoming completely unplayable in one of my CD players.  Since then I&#8217;ve switched to Taiyo Yuden.  However, Fuji (FujiFilm) CD-R&#8217;s made in Japan were manufactured by Taiyo Yuden, although unfortunately now these days apparently all Fuji discs are cheap-quality ones made in Taiwan.  And other brands such as Maxell &amp; Memorex, which at least at one time in the past have had the reputation of making possibly the worst-quality CD-R&#8217;s of all among well-known major brands, have even had their discs manufactured at least at some point in recent years, possibly even still now these days, by much more reputable CD-R manufacturers such as Taiyo Yuden.</p>
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		<title>By: Plomerus</title>
		<link>http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/comment-page-1/#comment-905</link>
		<dc:creator>Plomerus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 01:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/#comment-905</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You know, I wouldn&#039;t mind the prices for Pro-CDR releases if they utilized high-grade CDRs like the aforementioned Taiyo Yuden, Mitsui Gold, or any other master quality CDR, and included high quality inserts like the majority of silver releases BUT typically these CDR-only labels are using Maxell, Fuji, or any typical consumer grade CDR available - further, the inserts are many times lo-res, one-sided cop outs. I completely agree that there is no justification whatsoever for charging the same price or more than a silver release, but since many labels from countries that previously produced silver releases no longer do as a result of new legislation, those who remain are able to charge whatever prices they see fit. The solution? Send a clear message to the producers of such items that if its not factory-pressed-silver, then we&#039;ll just download &amp; burn onto higher quality CDRs ourselves for little more than the cost of the discs! OR...lower the prices to a small percentage over the cost of production. Or, offer some other incentive. I, for one, have surmised that eventually everything will turn up on silver, it&#039;s just a matter of waiting - in the meantime, it would have to be something REALLY special for me to purchase a CDR release at this point in time...otherwise, there&#039;s enough new silver releases every month that are far more worthy of my cash.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, I wouldn&#8217;t mind the prices for Pro-CDR releases if they utilized high-grade CDRs like the aforementioned Taiyo Yuden, Mitsui Gold, or any other master quality CDR, and included high quality inserts like the majority of silver releases BUT typically these CDR-only labels are using Maxell, Fuji, or any typical consumer grade CDR available &#8211; further, the inserts are many times lo-res, one-sided cop outs. I completely agree that there is no justification whatsoever for charging the same price or more than a silver release, but since many labels from countries that previously produced silver releases no longer do as a result of new legislation, those who remain are able to charge whatever prices they see fit. The solution? Send a clear message to the producers of such items that if its not factory-pressed-silver, then we&#8217;ll just download &#038; burn onto higher quality CDRs ourselves for little more than the cost of the discs! OR&#8230;lower the prices to a small percentage over the cost of production. Or, offer some other incentive. I, for one, have surmised that eventually everything will turn up on silver, it&#8217;s just a matter of waiting &#8211; in the meantime, it would have to be something REALLY special for me to purchase a CDR release at this point in time&#8230;otherwise, there&#8217;s enough new silver releases every month that are far more worthy of my cash.</p>
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		<title>By: Olympiakos1</title>
		<link>http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/comment-page-1/#comment-904</link>
		<dc:creator>Olympiakos1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 00:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/#comment-904</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve heard of knock off labels that actually press their own versions of shows (EELGRASS) I&#039;ve got no problem with those. But what about CDR-Only labels. How can they even rationalize their prices. They are selling CDR&#039;s??]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve heard of knock off labels that actually press their own versions of shows (EELGRASS) I&#8217;ve got no problem with those. But what about CDR-Only labels. How can they even rationalize their prices. They are selling CDR&#8217;s??</p>
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		<title>By: Plomerus</title>
		<link>http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/comment-page-1/#comment-325</link>
		<dc:creator>Plomerus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 00:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/#comment-325</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great suggestions there...I&#039;ll have to look into that &quot;CDR Identifier&quot; program. I&#039;m actually working on compiling a database of ALL Sirene releases (among other labels) for reference purposes as I&#039;ve not found ANY complete lists for ANY label anywhere...it&#039;s a very slow and painstaking process for sure, but it will be a great resource, and I don&#039;t think anyone outside of the label really knows the full discography (maybe a distro or two)! That being said, you&#039;re right, not only does Sirene have both Silver and Pro-CDR releases, the fact is that the vast majority of the discography is Pro-CDR! Our esteemed caretaker and some of the other long-time reviewers have strived to keep the focus on the silver pressings, and 99% of what is reviewed here (in terms of Sirene) are in fact silver discs. The Pro-CDR&#039;s from Sirene are very similar in nature to those of the predecessor Ayanami. Anyway, thanks for the GREAT suggestions...let&#039;s keep them coming, and Part 3 will be up soon!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great suggestions there&#8230;I&#8217;ll have to look into that &#8220;CDR Identifier&#8221; program. I&#8217;m actually working on compiling a database of ALL Sirene releases (among other labels) for reference purposes as I&#8217;ve not found ANY complete lists for ANY label anywhere&#8230;it&#8217;s a very slow and painstaking process for sure, but it will be a great resource, and I don&#8217;t think anyone outside of the label really knows the full discography (maybe a distro or two)! That being said, you&#8217;re right, not only does Sirene have both Silver and Pro-CDR releases, the fact is that the vast majority of the discography is Pro-CDR! Our esteemed caretaker and some of the other long-time reviewers have strived to keep the focus on the silver pressings, and 99% of what is reviewed here (in terms of Sirene) are in fact silver discs. The Pro-CDR&#8217;s from Sirene are very similar in nature to those of the predecessor Ayanami. Anyway, thanks for the GREAT suggestions&#8230;let&#8217;s keep them coming, and Part 3 will be up soon!</p>
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		<title>By: pharaoh</title>
		<link>http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/comment-page-1/#comment-323</link>
		<dc:creator>pharaoh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 20:12:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/#comment-323</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great article! one thing I wanted to add, which unfortunately adds to the confusion,is that some labels like Sirene issued some titles on silver discs and others on CDR&#039;s so it is possible to get a real Sirene title which is a pro made CDR.

Also in addition to looking for the ink printed numbers on the clear CDR hub you can check a disc using the program called &quot;CDR Identifier&quot;. It will tell you if it is a CDR and what brand they are. For anyone who buys pro made CDR&#039;s I highly recommend you make a backup using high quality media like Taiyo Yuden or even better Mitsui Gold CDR&#039;s. While these are more expensive the media is very stable and there is less chances you will end up with a corrupted disc which will not play..........]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article! one thing I wanted to add, which unfortunately adds to the confusion,is that some labels like Sirene issued some titles on silver discs and others on CDR&#8217;s so it is possible to get a real Sirene title which is a pro made CDR.</p>
<p>Also in addition to looking for the ink printed numbers on the clear CDR hub you can check a disc using the program called &#8220;CDR Identifier&#8221;. It will tell you if it is a CDR and what brand they are. For anyone who buys pro made CDR&#8217;s I highly recommend you make a backup using high quality media like Taiyo Yuden or even better Mitsui Gold CDR&#8217;s. While these are more expensive the media is very stable and there is less chances you will end up with a corrupted disc which will not play&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Plomerus</title>
		<link>http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/comment-page-1/#comment-320</link>
		<dc:creator>Plomerus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:42:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/#comment-320</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, that&#039;s the frustrating thing now - as part of eBay&#039;s new &quot;buyer protection program&quot; ALL user ID&#039;s are kept private, and thus it&#039;s impossible to drop someone a note anymore about the true nature of a listing. Also, good point about the numbered Sirene items - of course duplicates of the same number are another giveaway - I didn&#039;t realize there had been previous listings of the same items from this seller...if that&#039;s the case then they knowingly were selling fakes at top dollar. At any rate, eBay was a good starting point, and there are some good connections to be made, but better to deal with genuine shops/stores/distros for certain!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, that&#8217;s the frustrating thing now &#8211; as part of eBay&#8217;s new &#8220;buyer protection program&#8221; ALL user ID&#8217;s are kept private, and thus it&#8217;s impossible to drop someone a note anymore about the true nature of a listing. Also, good point about the numbered Sirene items &#8211; of course duplicates of the same number are another giveaway &#8211; I didn&#8217;t realize there had been previous listings of the same items from this seller&#8230;if that&#8217;s the case then they knowingly were selling fakes at top dollar. At any rate, eBay was a good starting point, and there are some good connections to be made, but better to deal with genuine shops/stores/distros for certain!</p>
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		<title>By: Errorprone</title>
		<link>http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/comment-page-1/#comment-319</link>
		<dc:creator>Errorprone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 13:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/#comment-319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I noticed the 141 Sirene number on that Offenbach EBay lisitng and as all the copies are number 141, I thought that it was obvious what these were. You were the buyer? I have noticed, however, that EBay has changed the bidding system so that buyers cannot contact other buyers and in fact, their IDs are kept mostly private. There were some auctions from that CD seller in Argetina/Uruguay selling Sirene copies where he was counterbidding from newer accounts. He ultimately raised the price on one of them to over 200 dollars. My advice: stay away from Ebay.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I noticed the 141 Sirene number on that Offenbach EBay lisitng and as all the copies are number 141, I thought that it was obvious what these were. You were the buyer? I have noticed, however, that EBay has changed the bidding system so that buyers cannot contact other buyers and in fact, their IDs are kept mostly private. There were some auctions from that CD seller in Argetina/Uruguay selling Sirene copies where he was counterbidding from newer accounts. He ultimately raised the price on one of them to over 200 dollars. My advice: stay away from Ebay.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David B.</title>
		<link>http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/comment-page-1/#comment-314</link>
		<dc:creator>David B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 07:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/#comment-314</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great Article! The Perils of E-Bay and the scammers are truly brought to the forefront. You really have to be careful these days. I&#039;ve gotten burned many time on e-bay as well. Now I just stick to Asian dealers I&#039;ve been fortunate to locate in the past. But a growing trend I&#039;ve sen is the sale of cd&#039;r recordings on smaller labels. They are professionally done but they are up front and open about their presentation as being cd&#039;r recordings. It&#039;s interesting because the price is the same (if not  more) as a silver pressed disc. I guess if You want the show You will have to pay the asking price. I am in no way supporting the scammers etc. that are making the copies of known originals and selling them as such. That is fraud plain and simple. E-bay sucks because they would rather ignore and protect the seller becaue thay make money from them and not the buyer. Be careful who You purchase items from. If You see someone bidding on junk You can always send them a message informing them of the crap that they are going to receive when they send their payment. I&#039;ve been fortunate to have several people notify Me about a fake that I may have bid on and I must Say &quot;Thank You&quot; for doing so and helping Me save money that otherwise would have been spent on a fake. DJB]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great Article! The Perils of E-Bay and the scammers are truly brought to the forefront. You really have to be careful these days. I&#8217;ve gotten burned many time on e-bay as well. Now I just stick to Asian dealers I&#8217;ve been fortunate to locate in the past. But a growing trend I&#8217;ve sen is the sale of cd&#8217;r recordings on smaller labels. They are professionally done but they are up front and open about their presentation as being cd&#8217;r recordings. It&#8217;s interesting because the price is the same (if not  more) as a silver pressed disc. I guess if You want the show You will have to pay the asking price. I am in no way supporting the scammers etc. that are making the copies of known originals and selling them as such. That is fraud plain and simple. E-bay sucks because they would rather ignore and protect the seller becaue thay make money from them and not the buyer. Be careful who You purchase items from. If You see someone bidding on junk You can always send them a message informing them of the crap that they are going to receive when they send their payment. I&#8217;ve been fortunate to have several people notify Me about a fake that I may have bid on and I must Say &#8220;Thank You&#8221; for doing so and helping Me save money that otherwise would have been spent on a fake. DJB</p>
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		<title>By: LedMan</title>
		<link>http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/comment-page-1/#comment-312</link>
		<dc:creator>LedMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 04:36:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/#comment-312</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I guess I wasn&#039;t the only one who got ripped off on Ebay from a  seller in Florida that sold me a fake silver factory pressed Silver Rarities title. For Sirene releases I purchase from two sources and have always recieved the genuine titles. Very interesting read and thanks for posting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I wasn&#8217;t the only one who got ripped off on Ebay from a  seller in Florida that sold me a fake silver factory pressed Silver Rarities title. For Sirene releases I purchase from two sources and have always recieved the genuine titles. Very interesting read and thanks for posting.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Plomerus</title>
		<link>http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/comment-page-1/#comment-311</link>
		<dc:creator>Plomerus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 00:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/#comment-311</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lots of very valid points being made here and all worthy of consideration for sure. I would just like to point out that I actually got these fake Sirenes from someone with 9000+ feedback, 99.8% positive...certainly not a fly-by-night or suspicious operation if you know what I mean; it really just illustrates my point that not everyone is intentionally peddling frauds, and further, obviously in many cases the buyer is simply happy to have the music in question - so I suppose it doesn&#039;t matter so much from a listener&#039;s perspective (until of course a CDR becomes corrupted or decays away as many do), however from a collector&#039;s standpoint and for those that intend to later re-sell an item (or say if an upgrade becomes available), surely it would equate to a loss if the item were anything other than genuine. At any rate, I&#039;m preparing part 2 of this series right now and should have it posted in the next week or so! Cheers!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lots of very valid points being made here and all worthy of consideration for sure. I would just like to point out that I actually got these fake Sirenes from someone with 9000+ feedback, 99.8% positive&#8230;certainly not a fly-by-night or suspicious operation if you know what I mean; it really just illustrates my point that not everyone is intentionally peddling frauds, and further, obviously in many cases the buyer is simply happy to have the music in question &#8211; so I suppose it doesn&#8217;t matter so much from a listener&#8217;s perspective (until of course a CDR becomes corrupted or decays away as many do), however from a collector&#8217;s standpoint and for those that intend to later re-sell an item (or say if an upgrade becomes available), surely it would equate to a loss if the item were anything other than genuine. At any rate, I&#8217;m preparing part 2 of this series right now and should have it posted in the next week or so! Cheers!</p>
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		<title>By: Lordbud</title>
		<link>http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/comment-page-1/#comment-306</link>
		<dc:creator>Lordbud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:12:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/#comment-306</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[With so much available material via bittorrent downloading, it has made it easier for ebay scammers/dealers as well as real bootleg labels to source new/upgraded concerts &amp; studio sessions for release/auction.  I always buy any new release via dealers I&#039;ve known for years who sell original label titles.

I have bought less than a handful of titles via ebay and only from legitimate ebay dealers -- the feedback/ratings are
there for anyone to read before they buy and unknown quantity, ending up with a
&quot;pirated bootleg&quot; or the dreaded CDr copy.

In the past I have had some luck asking legitimate bootleg dealers for older titles that were out-of-print, for example scoring an original Bowie - Va Va Va Voom gold disc on the original label.  After months of waiting, however.

Often the only way to pick up European produced titles for me is to go through Asian dealers who have connections to the various wholesalers, and I buy these when they are new releases.  Never wait thinking a bootleg will be available six months from now; not these days.

I don&#039;t buy nearly anywhere as much as I used to with bittorrent lossless concerts available, but when something really astounding comes along like Stolen Moments, or a Rolling Stones golden era
concert upgrade, I consider it a must to have a pressed silver CD to put with my collection.

I look forward to the future installments in this series, a necessary archive for future reference.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With so much available material via bittorrent downloading, it has made it easier for ebay scammers/dealers as well as real bootleg labels to source new/upgraded concerts &amp; studio sessions for release/auction.  I always buy any new release via dealers I&#8217;ve known for years who sell original label titles.</p>
<p>I have bought less than a handful of titles via ebay and only from legitimate ebay dealers &#8212; the feedback/ratings are<br />
there for anyone to read before they buy and unknown quantity, ending up with a<br />
&#8220;pirated bootleg&#8221; or the dreaded CDr copy.</p>
<p>In the past I have had some luck asking legitimate bootleg dealers for older titles that were out-of-print, for example scoring an original Bowie &#8211; Va Va Va Voom gold disc on the original label.  After months of waiting, however.</p>
<p>Often the only way to pick up European produced titles for me is to go through Asian dealers who have connections to the various wholesalers, and I buy these when they are new releases.  Never wait thinking a bootleg will be available six months from now; not these days.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t buy nearly anywhere as much as I used to with bittorrent lossless concerts available, but when something really astounding comes along like Stolen Moments, or a Rolling Stones golden era<br />
concert upgrade, I consider it a must to have a pressed silver CD to put with my collection.</p>
<p>I look forward to the future installments in this series, a necessary archive for future reference.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Plomerus</title>
		<link>http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/comment-page-1/#comment-304</link>
		<dc:creator>Plomerus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/#comment-304</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, I will say that the contents of the discs are indeed what they are supposed to be, and sound great...but would I have knowingly spent the amount that I did if it was advertised as a &quot;boot of a boot&quot;? Probably not. It&#039;s that fine line between procuring these shows as a listener, versus being a collector. Personally, I&#039;m a listener first and foremost,thus glad to have good versions of all shows that I do, but I&#039;m sure most folks would prefer to get what they believe they&#039;re paying for. The thing with these Sirene items in particular...starting prices are in the $80 range (for an older, out-of-print 2 disc set...often Sirene release 3-6 disc sets!) and go WAY beyond that for the rarest items, so it&#039;s definitely a serious issue. Anyway, it&#039;s really up to the individual to judge what is more important to them...the contents or the legitimacy...I&#039;ll be posting future installments in this series to help identify the fakes, strictly for reference purposes. Cheers, and thanks for the responses so far!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I will say that the contents of the discs are indeed what they are supposed to be, and sound great&#8230;but would I have knowingly spent the amount that I did if it was advertised as a &#8220;boot of a boot&#8221;? Probably not. It&#8217;s that fine line between procuring these shows as a listener, versus being a collector. Personally, I&#8217;m a listener first and foremost,thus glad to have good versions of all shows that I do, but I&#8217;m sure most folks would prefer to get what they believe they&#8217;re paying for. The thing with these Sirene items in particular&#8230;starting prices are in the $80 range (for an older, out-of-print 2 disc set&#8230;often Sirene release 3-6 disc sets!) and go WAY beyond that for the rarest items, so it&#8217;s definitely a serious issue. Anyway, it&#8217;s really up to the individual to judge what is more important to them&#8230;the contents or the legitimacy&#8230;I&#8217;ll be posting future installments in this series to help identify the fakes, strictly for reference purposes. Cheers, and thanks for the responses so far!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: walterfive</title>
		<link>http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/comment-page-1/#comment-303</link>
		<dc:creator>walterfive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/#comment-303</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve been aware of the Argentinian counterfeits for several years, I had a very reliable E-Bay Dealer from Uruguay for a couple of years back in 2003-2004, he had several rare Vig-O-Tone, Highland, and Swingin&#039; Pig titles that I bought from him-- they were quite well forged. The discs themselves seemed to be cloned from the original CDs, the faces of the original discs were scanned and factory laminated or silk-screened more often than not, and they were factory made CDs; If the original CD came in a protective cardboard jacket, that jacket was included, really *nice* product;  so I didn&#039;t feel *too* ripped off at all paying $20 a disc for them. I didn&#039;t even know that a few of them (like the Vig-O-Tone) were fakes at all for several months, although it was obvious with The Swingin&#039; Pig title, as it had a design on the CD face that Swingin&#039; Pig never used. But that was the only clue--these weren&#039;t the shoddy Russian made Beatles Ultra-Rare Trax series (for example) that the market was flooded with in the late 90&#039;s. These were highly detailed counterfeits, damned good ones!

I paid him in Montevideo, Uruguay, but his shipments were always postmarked Buenos Aires, Argentina. He always had dozens of titles available. Many of his non-rarity titles were South American shows that I&#039;ve rarely seen bootlegged anywhere else, like &quot;Old Chots Live In Argentina&quot; the Page &amp; Plant concert that was telecast live from Buenos Aires, for example. Always high-quality stuff. One day I got an E-mail from his partner saying my connection had left town, but he&#039;d be able to fill my order, and I eventually got the discs, but he never answered another E-mail, and his E-Bay Account closed. 

So I&#039;m of mixed opinion about this. If some enterprising bootlegger out there wants to duplicate classic rare releases at an affordable price, more power to &#039;em. I&#039;ll put together a wish-list of classic Tarantura, Yellow Dog and Vigotone titles that I wish I&#039;d bought when I saw &#039;em on the old mail lists I used to get.

However, if someone were charging me $50 apiece (or more) for them as originals because of their &quot;rarity&quot; I would feel robbed. Thanks for providing photos of the fakes-- I&#039;ve never purchased any Sirene product, so I wouldn&#039;t be able to guess.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been aware of the Argentinian counterfeits for several years, I had a very reliable E-Bay Dealer from Uruguay for a couple of years back in 2003-2004, he had several rare Vig-O-Tone, Highland, and Swingin&#8217; Pig titles that I bought from him&#8211; they were quite well forged. The discs themselves seemed to be cloned from the original CDs, the faces of the original discs were scanned and factory laminated or silk-screened more often than not, and they were factory made CDs; If the original CD came in a protective cardboard jacket, that jacket was included, really *nice* product;  so I didn&#8217;t feel *too* ripped off at all paying $20 a disc for them. I didn&#8217;t even know that a few of them (like the Vig-O-Tone) were fakes at all for several months, although it was obvious with The Swingin&#8217; Pig title, as it had a design on the CD face that Swingin&#8217; Pig never used. But that was the only clue&#8211;these weren&#8217;t the shoddy Russian made Beatles Ultra-Rare Trax series (for example) that the market was flooded with in the late 90&#8242;s. These were highly detailed counterfeits, damned good ones!</p>
<p>I paid him in Montevideo, Uruguay, but his shipments were always postmarked Buenos Aires, Argentina. He always had dozens of titles available. Many of his non-rarity titles were South American shows that I&#8217;ve rarely seen bootlegged anywhere else, like &#8220;Old Chots Live In Argentina&#8221; the Page &amp; Plant concert that was telecast live from Buenos Aires, for example. Always high-quality stuff. One day I got an E-mail from his partner saying my connection had left town, but he&#8217;d be able to fill my order, and I eventually got the discs, but he never answered another E-mail, and his E-Bay Account closed. </p>
<p>So I&#8217;m of mixed opinion about this. If some enterprising bootlegger out there wants to duplicate classic rare releases at an affordable price, more power to &#8216;em. I&#8217;ll put together a wish-list of classic Tarantura, Yellow Dog and Vigotone titles that I wish I&#8217;d bought when I saw &#8216;em on the old mail lists I used to get.</p>
<p>However, if someone were charging me $50 apiece (or more) for them as originals because of their &#8220;rarity&#8221; I would feel robbed. Thanks for providing photos of the fakes&#8211; I&#8217;ve never purchased any Sirene product, so I wouldn&#8217;t be able to guess.</p>
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		<title>By: wdteske</title>
		<link>http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/comment-page-1/#comment-298</link>
		<dc:creator>wdteske</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.collectorsmusicreviews.com/editorial/uncovering-the-real-fakes-at-last/#comment-298</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nice article and a great eye opener for newer collectors who may not know the difference between CD&#039;s and CDR&#039;s. I myself bought a few Beatles and Pink Floyd Cd&#039;s from the person in Florida until a few years ago when I realized they were fake. I remember the posting as &quot;not a cheaply made CDR&quot;. I guess I bought expensive CDR&#039;s! Last year, after a seller of a Pink Floyd CD replied to my request that his listing was indeed a silver pressed Cd, I was shocked to receive a CDR. The seller did promptly return my money, so I never filed a negative feedback. However, numerous other buyers seemed oblivious to this and seemed content to pay close to $40 for double Pink Floyd live CDR sets.
70dzboy]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice article and a great eye opener for newer collectors who may not know the difference between CD&#8217;s and CDR&#8217;s. I myself bought a few Beatles and Pink Floyd Cd&#8217;s from the person in Florida until a few years ago when I realized they were fake. I remember the posting as &#8220;not a cheaply made CDR&#8221;. I guess I bought expensive CDR&#8217;s! Last year, after a seller of a Pink Floyd CD replied to my request that his listing was indeed a silver pressed Cd, I was shocked to receive a CDR. The seller did promptly return my money, so I never filed a negative feedback. However, numerous other buyers seemed oblivious to this and seemed content to pay close to $40 for double Pink Floyd live CDR sets.<br />
70dzboy</p>
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