The TCOLZ label sadly closes their run with Final Winterland (TCOLZ 064/065/066/067/068/069). This is a six disc set containing all of the sources for the November 6th and November 7th, 1969 Winterland shows in San Francisco. In a statement, the label describes this release saying:
These are rather not commonly released shows, possibly just for the fact they were always sourced from high gen and not so well sounding tapes. After several years, I’ve finally reached better sounding transfers for both dates. The November 6th was previously released by Image Quality on “Room 2/3” triple CD set but this title missing some chatters and sounds more muffled. Tarantura’s “Punk” is much worse, missing some actual music and suffered from strange speed issues that are not available on the IQ title. Few months ago T2K released their own box titled “Lead Set”, including this night using the 2nd source as primary and added 1st tape to complete tho gaps. Sadly, this title, beside of being virtually most complete, is equalized heavily and some edits are made in a rather poor way. I used two different versions of so called source no. 1 to make this version the best sounding and most complete. The version I prepared has longer intro and much of chatter between the songs that other titles missing. The 2nd tape source for November 6th is released in its entirety only on T2K box but as was said, this set is suffering from heavy equalization. My transfer is also free of some glitches and pops that can be found on T2K release. The November 7th tape is heavily overlooked by the collectors because only 2 titles were released in the past from this concerto: Image Quality’s “Room 2/3” and Missing Link’s “The Winter Of Our Content”. Both titles are missing some chatter and also sounds tinner when compared with my own version.
In other boot news, two new Rainbow titles are coming out. Birmingham Rising (Rising Arrow-037) contains a tape for the September 11th, 1976 Birmingham show.
Lost In Bremen (Darker Than Blue 086/087) has the Stadthalle, Bremen, Germany show on January 30th 1980.
24 Comments
I refuse to pay for something someone makes in their basement who charges the same price as silver disc titles. You can downlod the same music and find artwork for free and burn the shows on the best cdr’s available, Mitsui Gold cdr’s, for a couple of $$ each. But this is the way of the future my friends as soon very few titles will be silver pressed IMHO……Your opinion may vary of course
At least with silver discs the music information is physically punched into the metal disc, whereas the dyes that are used to store digital music information on CD-R are incredibly ephemeral, it’s amazing CD-R burning actually works at all. In 10 years time when you go to play your Free Range Pigs CD-Rs you may find the music has quite literally dropped off.
Interestingly, Pink Floyd have just won a legal case with EMI over their music, in particular, the ability of EMI to make individual Floyd songs available to download. The Floyd assert that this contravenes their contract, in that it sacrifices the integrity of the album (eg. albums designed to be heard as an overall piece of music). The iPod generation seem to prefer snatching individual tracks from here, there and everywhere, regardless of context. Sorry that went on a bit.
In addition to the major question of the data on CD-R’s probably going corrupt eventually in a few or several years, aren’t CD-R’s also somewhat less durable than factory-pressed original silvers in terms of being easier to physically damage, scratch, etc.? I very much prefer factory-pressed silver originals over pro-CD-R’s, especially when very questionable brands of discs are being used for CD-R’s, such as the ones made in Taiwan, esp. by manufacturers such as Ritek & CMC, but I’ll reluctantly buy pro-CD-R titles when there isn’t much alternative (other choice). However, whenever I do, I always burn backup copies of each pro-CD-R disc to a blank CD-R of the very highest-quality brand(s), which these days is probably Taiyo Yuden in Japan, and used to be Mitsui several years ago, followed closely behind by Taiyo Yuden back in those years.
Barman-good point regarding the difference between purchasing a pro-cdr release and just downloading the show and it’s artwork and burning it yourself. What, indeed, is the difference?
Yes, some of the pro-cdr labels put out a quality product in regards to graphics and the shows themselves-Ayanami being one of the standouts. One of the reasons I collect silvers is becuase of the sense of permanence, the fact that these silvers will/should be around forever (yes, there are exceptions such as some of the Great Dane titles and a couple others), but who can say the same thing about cdrs? To me, cdrs are the equivalent of a blank tape.
Who knows how long some of these cdrs will be around. It’s probably a safe assumption that most of us have had some experience with cdr deterioration, or have experienced some cd players not being able to play some cdrs; not to mention how those paper labels seem to make the cdr discs just a tad heavier; which in turn makes the cd player unable to play certain discs.
Agree with you to a degree, alucard72, but I also wonder what lug_nutz6 wonders: why do “pro cdr” releases cost as much, and occasionally more than, silver releases ? When the shift to cdr releases started to pick up steam a few years ago, I refused to purchase them, especially given that the price was often the same, but I slowly relented to an extent. Now, it seems like a lot of my favorite groups (Faces, Dolls, Mott, etc.) only get the cdr treatment. Should I just download them and download the cover art ? I haven’t started doing that yet, but I may. And, further, why is there such a wide range of prices for said cdr labels ? I see titles on the label 2000GFRR (is that right ?) that list at $45 for a single cdr. Yikes ! And yet, the same seller will have VGP and DAC titles, for example, which actually cost less, despite being silver releases. I just don’t get it.
It seems a great pity that certain collectors should choose to deny themselves the chance of hearing newly discovered recordings on the basis that the playing side of the disc is a different colour. After all, these ‘pro-CDRs’ on labels such as Ayanami, Amity and Uxbridge are manufactured by the same people responsible for Sirene/Sigma/Wardour/Virtuoso etc. The same careful mastering and great artwork are used, so what’s the big deal??
I agree roertd7, it is demographics. Us ‘older folks’ that are mostly buying the Floyd, Stones and Zep titles don’t typically have the disposable income that younger generations do. And as you said they don’t care about actual discs or artwork. Plus there’s simple supply and demand. If certain shows or artists aren’t selling enough to justify producing them, labels are not financially able to produce them. Even though many labels do it for the music and as fans, they still need the cash to survive. Some profit is needed to fund the next release. Considering the supply and demand aspect…since most titles are being produced out of Japan, does the Japanese consumer not care if titles are silver or CDR? I have purchased CDR titles (I know I know…the blasphemy) and they are usually just as expensive as silver titles? That doesn’t make sense? Does the Japanese buyer not see a difference between factory silvers and CDRs? That’s a real question…can someone give me some insight into this.
I think one reason there’s a gradual decline in CDs is demographics. My kids aren’t interested in CDs and never buy them. It’s all downloads for their iPods. CDs (and vinyl) are associated with a certain age group as are bands like LZ, RS etc. My son likes some LZ & RS songs, but when I suggest he might like to listen to a few of my CDs he just isn’t interested.
I do agree with you that it will not completely die out but I see it shrinking to the point where only certain big name bands will end up on silver disc.
As much as I love the big names it is too bad, as you pointed out, that there are incredible shows, by bands like Yes, Queen, Genesis, etc., finally emerging from the hoarders hands thanks to the internet only to be relegated to cdr release.
Maybe I am wrong but I am thinking there just is not the collector base there anymore to support silver discs for these shows when they are free to download?
Not complaining, o.k. maybe whining a little….but it is sad to see your hobby slowly go on life support…..
So you agree with me that it’s not completely dying out.
The issue with Led Zeppelin titles is a special matter. The production of Zep titles ran full steam for almost twenty years and the market is simply saturated at this point, at least in Japan. How many more versions of the same show do we have to have? And the only label that is releasing new tapes, Empress Valley, have created so much bad blood that collectors will deal with them only reluctantly.
If you take a look at this site, you’ll see the silver market for Rolling Stones, Eric Clapton and Rainbow to be extremely robust and vibrant with new titles coming out each week. And despite the complaints from Lordbud and other Stones collectors, the new Stones titles are selling like crazy.
So I do not believe Zeppelin is the benchmark of the hobby as you suggest.
I would like to see TCOLZ continue since, despite the glut, there are some Zeppelin shows that need definitive release such as Detroit July 12th, the Nobs show in 1970 and others. But I’m sure they will surface in time.
Not moaning or complaining GS just pointing out a fact of life, the silver disc trade is slowly dying out. All you have to do is look at the increasing number of cdr releases as opposed to new silver disc releases. Will it completly die out? Probably not but I see it being very limited sometime in the future with only the big bands like Zep, Bruce, Dylan, Stones and maybe Floyd getting the silver disc treatment….Don’t you find it alarming that TCOLZ shutdown because they could not sell Zep silver discs? If labels can’t make money on Zep releases what does that say about the future of our hobby? No gloom and doom just an observation…your opinion of course may vary…..
Wow – more comments about the trade than this release! For sure TCOLZ will be missed – for example I do believe the Knebworth Masters DVD was a cut above other releases (Watch Tower)- great DVD. But, speaking for Zeppelin releases, I have to say with all the titles and releases over the years I am far more selective when I do purchase a new silver item. For sure the recent EV sounboard releases have been my focus – otherwise I tend to pass on alot (not all) of the new stuff because I already have a very good silver of a previous release.
The “pro CDR labels” have been here for years now. The internet itself is the reason pressed CDs are “dying a slow death”. Lossless torrent sites specializing in mostly live music have obliterated the market for pressed boot CDs. Nothing to cry about, but just an observation. I’d gladly buy several newly traded Rolling Stones shows on pressed CD but apparently even the No Name label has limited interest in mastering and pressing releases of this nature. DAC seem to make a hash of those shows they bother to master so that I’m happy to archive flac files rather than shell out top dollar. I don’t see prices coming down enough for the market to bear. One pressed disc being $30 including postage? That’s top dollar, especially for Rehash, rereleases…
So what’s the point of so slower selling of silvers?
I am 100% agree with mr Sparaco.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say it’s “dying a slow death.” The discourse for silver discs now is pretty much the same as it was for vinyl in the late eighties. Vinyl never really went away but became a niche market. I envision the same for silver pressed discs. They will always be around, just fewer and in limited quantities.
There are advantages and disadvantages to this. AA pointed out the lower prices for many of these releases. And it’s nice to see them a bit more affordable.
On the downside are all of the great tapes coming out only on CDR which I’ll never get. The past couple of weeks I’ve seen awesome releases by Genesis, Queen and Yes which are on Amity, Windmill and Trial, all CDR labels that are hard to find and which I don’t collect.
I know these are very negative times and it’s easy to moan and complain, but there are many great titles still out there.
Lets face it our hobby is dying a slow death. The vendors I deal with used to sell only silver discs and now their list of new product have more CDR/DVDR titles then silver discs. It is hard to argue the benefits of downloading as it opened the vaults to some extent and has brought out shows we otherwise might have never heard but the cost is the death of the silver disc I think
EVSD is just releasing an unreleased soundboards nowadays. The rest are reissues of titles previously issued. I think the main reason of this situation is very poor selling of silver pressed boots for almost every band, not only Led Zeppelin. The collectors who bought many titles in the past are often not interested to spread extra money on another source, others likely downloading, or collecting low gens as me. The limitation might be planned to improve selling (some of us collecting only for the artwork and limitation) but most of people are just not interested in that kind of business. I think the times were bootlegs were very profitable gone. Even people selling bootlegs are asking for much lower prices for them than just few years ago. For example, 2 or 3 years ago for 6CD box you were obligated to pay $300 or so; today you can get for a half of that sum or even lower. Maybe an answer is a new audio/media format we don’t have yet?
Limited to 25 with the first 5 copies to come with numbered stickers? ;o)
I remember when TCOLZ was announced for the very first time. Their aim was to release UNLIMITED editions but they started with limited to 100 copies for How Many Years Gone With The Wind. If the torrent labels like TCOLZ doesn’t sell enough … why do not bring premium labels like EVSD back to their glory and satisfiy the true bootleg fanatic?
It is disappointing, but Zeppelin bootlegs are a tough sell in Japan at the moment. TCOLZ also mention that Winterland is pressed in fewer numbers than the other titles, so if you want it you’d better grab a copy fast before they’re all gone.
I must say I am a bit disappointed that TCOLZ are not going to continue. They were definitely one of my favorite Zep labels. Their titles were never ruined by excessive mastering and the comprehensive sets they were releasing made collecting fun. I hope someone picks up where they left off.
I’m a Zep fan who hasn’t even yet acquired any TCOLZ’s, and I’m already somewhat sad to see ’em shutter (down). :-(
why is TCOLZ closing down?
The final TCOLZ title : Does this mean this great label stops to exist? If so, sad news indeed.