Oakland Coliseum Arena 1969 FM-SB (SODD-029 & bonus CD-R)
Oakland Coliseum, Oakland, CA – November 9th, 1969 2nd Show
Sympathy For The Devil, Stray Cat Blues, Prodigal Son, You Gotta Move, Love In Vain, Live With Me, Gimme Shelter, Little Queenie, Satisfaction. Bonus tracks: Brown Sugar (Shelley 11\18\71 Hot Rocks Version), Wild Horses (Shelley 11\18\71 Hot Rocks Version)
Bonus CDR Olympia Stadium, Detroit, MI – November 24th, 1969: Jumpin’ Jack Flash, Carol, Sympathy For The Devil, Stray Cat Blues, Love In Vain, Prodigal Son, You Gotta Move, Under My Thumb, Midnight Rambler, Live With Me, Little Queenie, Satisfaction, Honky Tonk Women, Street Fighting Man
Oakland Coliseum Arena 1969 FM-SB contains a fragmented soundboard recording of the famous November 9th late show in Oakland. An excellent quality audience recording of this show is the source for the famous Live’r Than You’ll Ever Be, but this comes from a recording that is thought to have been made by Bill Graham.
This tape was first booted on vinyl in Germany and is the source for the earliest CD release, Hangout (World Production Of Compact Music D 047-2). Oakland ’69 (Audifon AF 005) and Oakland Sixty-Nine (Vinyl Gang Product RS-692 VGP-003) are two more recent releases of this show. It is a clear and enjoyable, but is also very primitive sounding.
Further, there is a layer of hiss over the music which, if anyone attempted to remove, would completely ruin it. This raw recording was probably made only for Graham’s personal archives with no intention of radio broadcast or for use by London for Get Yer Ya-Ya’s Out, the official live album souvenir of the 1969 tour.
It doesn’t contain the complete show because “Jumping Jack Flash,” “Carol,” “I’m Free,” “Under My Thumb,” “Midnight Rambler,” “Honky Tonk Women,” and “Street Fighting Man” are missing. There are cuts between each song, the very beginning of “You Gotta Move” is missing and the very end of “Satisfaction” is cut off. This release on SODD comes from the same source as the others and the sound quality is comparable. Thankfully they didn’t try to improve the tape with excessive remastering but instead chose to leave the tape alone.
Bill Graham himself broadcast this tape on KSAN in San Francisco on October 29th, 1972, the same month the late, great Tom Donohue became program director for this progressive station. The existence of this tape is as much a testimony to the Stones as it is to the glory days of free form radio in the late sixties to the late seventies.
Stations like KSAN in San Francisco and WNEW in New York were not beholden to the rigid programming of the AM top-40 format and the presentation of rock and roll was as much of an art form as the music itself. Hearing music, even from popular bands, out of the context of the proscribed hits was more common then than now.
Hearing a soundboard recording this raw sounding, and of a show that isn’t the best, is unheard of today. Although this is a classic concert and everyone should have a copy of the audience recording in the collection, this is still a good example of the Stones sounding very raw and tentative.
This is the band’s first tour of the U.S. in three years and their first with new guitarist Mick Taylor, and it sounds as if the band were still getting acquainted with one another. It is apparent on the first song on this release “Sympathy For The Devil.” Although this version is good it is far from the versions played on the east coast by the end of the tour. The acoustic set is very good though and it is nice to have a very clear recording of the Rev. Robert Wilkins classic “Prodigal Son.”
“You Gotta Move” hadn’t even been recorded yet and this is a stripped down, basic rendition. The studio version on Sticky Fingers and during the Tour Of The Americas is much better. The band seem to experience equipment problems half way through “Live With Me” when Jagger says repeatedly “I think we got a problem…I think we got a problem.” Jagger speaks about an echo on his voice before “Gimme Shelter.”
SODD include two bonus tracks. Both “Brown Sugar” and “Wild Horses” come from the initial pressing of Hot Rocks on November 18th, 1971. The copies can be identified by the word Shelley and the date 11-18-71 scratched into the trail off on the vinyl. (Shelley refers to the poet Percy B. Shelley whose poem “Adonis” Mick read as a eulogy for Brian Jones at the Hyde Park in July 1969).
These tracks have been included on various CD releases including Bright Lights Big City (VGP-307). “Brown Sugar” is much closer to the original demo heard in the hotel room sequence in the film Gimme Shelter but lacks the saxophone, and “Wild Horses” has more reverb on the vocals. There are two hundred copies of the bonus CDR with the audience recording from Detroit on November 24th, 1969. This tape appears on the CD release Live From Detroit 1969 (Minotauro Records 1405-A). It hasn’t been released many times so the bonus makes it worthwhile.
21 Comments
Thanks, dannyzero, for the interesting link, & classicrawker for the other info. As for VGP 276, unfortunately I can’t give any of my own advice that might helpful for anyone’s decision to get it or not, but for me the fact that it has “Under My Thumb” at only 2:44 or 2:45, with the start cut-off, is enough for me to not want it, especially as I’m not interested in the other show that it offers, at least not yet, and I’m fairly satisfied with the sound quality of my VGP 024. I personally find VGP 024 to be even a tiny bit better than the pro-CD-R version released by Sister Morphine since they seem to sound considerably similar to each other, but I did at least notice that there are a couple very brief but annoying “hiccups” on the last couple tracks of the Sister Morphine pro-CD-R. I assume, or presume, that the splicing of “Under My Thumb” must refer to just approx. the first 38-40 seconds at the start that are unfortunately missing on other versions – such as the VGP 276.
I just recently got the VGP024 “Members Only” version and it has the orginal JJF with the level problems but I did not find them to be very objectionable. I could only hear a couple of spots where the sound was slighly muffled and level dropped for a second or two. For me at least it did not detract from the music at all. UMT is also complete and if there are any splices they are very well done as you barely notice them. I don’t think VGP did much processing so it is a very good sound quality release so I can recommend this version for those looking for a copy of the famous show.
Regarding the TOTR version I think this is actually a Sister Morphine release, bascially the same label as TOTR, and is on gold cdr’s not silver disc. This is the only other version I have heard, and much like all the other SM releases, I find it to be too overprocessed for my taste making the guitars too shrill sounding. But then again SM releases have a loyal fan base so it depends on what you like….Danny, If you decide to get the VGP276 version I would love to hear what you think of it….
DLee, check out this link: http://rollingstonesnet.com/USTour1969.html ; it covers the 1969 US Tour, and many of the CDs for Oakland 2nd show are briefly listed. VGP 024 is commented on: “Contains original Oakland ’69 2nd show versions of Jumpin’ Jack Flash with level problems and a spliced Under My Thumb. Note the newer edition of this CD has the “for members only” logo on the disc.” I don’t know if it means the complete song or just a partial of “Under My Thumb” is spliced in? VGP 276 is commented on as such: “Contains original Oakland ’69 2nd show versions of Jumpin’ Jack Flash with sound drops and a partial version of Under My Thumb.” The Turd on the Run 30th Anniversary edition version is listed as having the best sound of all versions. Now debating on whether to get VGP 276 or not…
Thanks very much, Dannyzero, for all that helpful info. The disc of my VGP-024 is exactly the same way that you describe yours. As for all those other Stones boot CD titles that you described, though, unfortunately I’m sorry to say that I’m not familiar with them, as it was just late spring of this year that I finally started expanding my boot collection of audio-only CD’s to The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Cream, & The Jimi Hendrix Experience, etc. after having collected only Pink Floyd (for boots, that is) for many years. But if or when I come up with any info. about those particular Stones titles that might be helpful to you, or anyone else here, then surely I’ll let it become known here, especially as I’m gradually learning more these days about Stones boot CD’s. Many thanks again.
DLee, my copy of VGP 024, titled “The Original Live’R Than You’ll Ever Be” is NOT “Digitally Remastered” with that red circular stamp saying it is as in the link you provided. What does your disc look like? Mine is the typical black surfaced VGP with silver lettering saying “For Members Only Not for Sale Vol. 024”. The reason I ask is I have VGP 031 “Gathering Madness”, which features a silver top surfaced disc as well as thin paper covers, not the heavy cardstock most Vinyl Gang titles are known for (I also have VGP 005 “El Mocambo” (1st edition) with a silver top surface and thin inserts, and I know there is a 2nd edition which maybe has the thicker cardstock covers), and I don’t know if the original release of VGP 024 had one of these silver surfaced discs.
If Vinyl Gang did “Digitally Remaster” 024, perhaps they used the same source from VGP 276 “From San Francisco to Paris” which claimed to be from the “Original Master Recording”, but rather than change the artwork just addd that red stamp?
Vinyl Gang have often remastered and rereleased their titles using the same catalog number with different artwork. I have VGP 008 “San Diego Sixty-Nine” which features entirely different artwork than I’ve seen on line, has the “Original Master Recording” logo on the tray card, the usual black VGP disc, and sports a 2004 date on it! I wonder if my copy of VGP 008 is from the same sound source used on VGP 096 “It’s No Hangin Matter”, which claims the San Diego show is taken from the original master reel. My copy of VGP 004 “Lacerated” also features different artwork and the typical black disc. I also have VGP 259 (Gold disc version) which sports 5 discs and the title of “American Tour 1972”, which VGP re-issued as an identical 4 disc set called “Plug In Flush Out” ; the 5th disc on “American Tour” is basically the 1972 “Welcome to New York” soundboard (which Vinyl Gang did reissue as VGP 312 “Welcome to New York 1972”!!).
So with all these re-issues/rereleases from Vinyl Gang using the same catalog number, it is possible that they did release a remastered version of VGP 024. And if there is, is it the same source used on VGP 276?
Or, conversely, if anyone has or has seen only ones that don’t say “DIGITALLY REMASTERED” on the front cover, that would pretty-much essentially be just as helpful. So has anyone, maybe dannyzero? Again, thanks.
I finally got a factory-pressed silver original of VGP-024 (“Live’r Than You’ll Ever Be”), and it seems to be the best version of the show that I’ve acquired so far. However, is there supposed to be a 2nd version by VGP that’s remastered, and is indicated as being so by stating “DIGITALLY REMASTERED” in red lettering inside a small black circle in the upper right corner of the front cover, such as in this particular pic? – http://www10.atwiki.jp/stones?cmd=upload&act=open&pageid=224&file=VGP-024b.jpg Mine certainly doesn’t. So anyone actually have or seen one that does? Dannyzero, possibly? Thanks to anyone who could let it become known here.
Many thanks again, dannyzero, for all that interesting info. I fully agree with your conclusions. And my “Revolution Sixtinine” (GDR CD 9105) may not be a copy of the Swingin’ Pig version due to the skip in the ‘Satisfaction’ track, although there are at least a couple sites that say it is a copy. Thanks again.
DLee, The Swingin’ Pig version of “Live’R Than You’ll Ever Be” clocks in at 73:42 minutes (VGP 024 is 73:46), there are those dropouts at the beginning of “Little Queenie” (also present on VGP 024), and there is no “skip” during “Satisfaction”.
Upon further listening/comparisons and Dlee’s comments) between “Under My Thumb” on both VGP 024 and the Swingin’ Pig release, I’ve concluded that “UMT” is indeed from the second Oakland show on VGP 024, and it’s from another source (most likely San Diego the next night) on the Swingin’ Pig version.
Sorry to say that I don’t have any more info. to provide now, but thanks again for everything. I’ve just received a pressed silver original real CD of “Revolution Sixtinine” (Great Dane) – supposedly a copy of The Swingin’ Pig version. However, although everything else seems to indicate that it probably is, slightly more than 2 minutes into the ‘Satisfaction’ track, what sounds exactly like a CD skipping for just a second occurs, but this old release came sealed & without any defects visible on the disc, and Exact Audio Copy even rips it without any problems in both of the CD players on my PC, so I suspect that the brief skip might even be on The Swingin’ Pig version. Also, there’s a couple partial dropouts early on near the start of ‘Little Queenie’ – occurring approx. 18-21 seconds into the track, although it could possibly be a little later on The Swingin’ Pig version if they included more dialogue or audience noise from the end of the previous track to the beginning of their version of ‘Little Queenie’. Also, the total playing time of my CD is 73:34, but I’ve heard that The Swingin’ Pig version is as much as approx. 20 seconds shorter. So is it possible that either dannyzero or anyone else who has The Swingin’ Pig version, or even the Great Dane version itself, could check their own for these 3 issues? Again, I’m referring to the “skip” in ‘Satisfaction’ (slightly more than 2 minutes into it), the couple dropouts early on in ‘Little Queenie’, & the total playing time of the whole entire disc. It’ll be greatly appreciated, and if I’m able to come up with anything (further) that might be helpful, I’ll be sure to post it here ASAP. Thanks, as always.
Dlee, thanks for your detailed response, very appreciated! It’s good to know Jagger says “alright” 3 times on your version as well, so we can assume this “Under My Thumb”is from the 2nd Oakland show.
More researching has dug up the following information: One site has a detailed history of the original LP releases, and states “More complete tape sources are also still available today on Vinyl Gang and Turd On The Run/Sister Morphine record labels. Note that the TOTR uses a different but excellent tape source for the Oakland show.” A different tape source is mentioned, perhaps this is what MOS001 and VGP276 use and why “UMT” runs 2:44 rather than the 3:24 on VGP 024 (maybe it was a tape flip and the taper missed the beginning of the song?)
Another site had this to say about the Sister Morphine version: “(their) CD-R release seems somewhat ‘overproduced’ to my ears. In the attempt to artificially boost the sound-level of the guitars- the drums & bass are pretty much ‘missing in action’, on this Sister Morphine release. Under My Thumb is, in fact, a studio creation, digitally editing portions of the incomplete version of UMT from the
master tape. Vinyl Gang has released two far more sonically-interesting
versions of this show: One being “The Original Live’r Than You’ll Ever Be”,
from the complete unadulterated audience master tape. The other is the Soundboard tape of this same show, entitled “Oakland 1969″.” Another confirmation of VGP 024 being complete, but it also makes me wonder about the digital editing to complete “UMT” (was this technique used on other versions?).
I also discovered that Taranture released a double disc of the first and second Oakland shows, adding to the confusion: “This Tarantura edition from Japan was mastered in 2001 using the original 5-inch reel masters and the defects on Jumping Jack Flash [Tk1] and Under My Thumb [Tk 9] have been corrected using today’s studio equipment so they are finally suitable for release. All previous versions of this bootleg used two different sources other than the Oakland show to substitute for the two tracks.” I don’t know how truthful the last staement is, but one site lists the running time for Tarantura’s “UMT” as 3:23, so my assumption about this Tarantura version and VGP276 (“Original Master Recording”)being from the same source are not correct, as “UMT” on VGP276 runs 2:44.
Based on my findings and DLee’s info, I believe that there are 2 tape sources for the 2nd Oakland show, one with “UMT” running 3:24 and the other 2:44. Or maybe the 3:24 version has been digitally edited from both sources to make the complete track.
Any more help/information would be appreciated!
PS – on my version of UMT, it starts right into Jagger singing “…..the change has come; she’s under my thumb”, which is what it must be on all the recordings of either 2:44 or 2:45 in length.
Thanks very much for all that info. – it’s greatly appreciated since it actually helps me a lot instead of making anything confusing, and clears up a few mysteries for me that I’ve been wondering about after having done some “research” on the ‘Net the last few weeks. Some of what I was able to find was confirmed by the identical findings that you provided, Dannyzero, but the rest of your info. was new to me, and again, greatly appreciated. Everything considered, I have to conclude that your VGP 024 version is indeed the complete 2nd Oakland show, probably even incl. approx. the first 40 seconds of UMT that are missing on the versions in which UMT clocks in at only 2:44 (or 2:45) but were somehow restored on the lengthier ones that clock in at 3:23. The only UMT version that’s from the San Diego show the next day on the 10th must be the 3:24-long one on the The Swingin’ Pig release & any release that’s supposedly a copy of it, such as the Great Dane (GDR CD 9105) version called “Revolution Sixtinine”, which I should be receiving later this week. The only version of the 2nd Oakland show that I have so far is the Master of Sounds label version of “Live’R Than You’ll Ever Be” (MOS001), and I discovered that Jagger says “all right” exactly 3 times within a span of approx. 5 or 6 seconds near the end of the 2:44-long UMT. There’s a dropout that starts at 1:04 and the volume doesn’t fully recover until 1:08 or 1:09, and also another slight dropout at 1:32. That span of 1:04 to 1:08 or 1:09 would correspond to approx. 1:43 or 1:44 to 1:47 or 1:48 or 1:49 on the lengthier versions that somehow have the first 39 or 40 seconds restored. So I certainly hope that makes sense. Thanks again for all the helpful details – much appreciated.
Bjarke and Dlee, could you tell me if Jagger says “alright” (and how many times if he does) at the end of “Under My Thumb” from the versions you have, and if there are any sound muffling/drop outs (as detailed in my above post).
Researching more about “Under My Thumb” from the Oakland 1969 show on different releases on various online Rolling Stones sites, I’ve found some interesting information. One site says that VGP 024 is the complete Oakland show, and that “JJF” and “UMT” have sound problems ; this site also mentions the Swingin’ Pig release and how those 2 tracks were replced due to sound problems. A different site comments on “From San Francisco to Paris” being “a copy of bootleg LP “Live’r Than You’ll Ever Be””, but doesn’t specify if it’s actually mastered from vinyl. This same site also covers 2 versions on CD of “Live’r” without mentioning that they are a copy of the LP: SODD’s bonus CDR of the show lists a running time of 2:45 for “UMT”, while the 30th Anniversary version on Sister Morphine lists the 3:23 running time. Another site comments that the Sister Morphine version is “Complete with the “original” fully-audible versions of Jumping Jack Flash & Under My Thumb from the Oakland second show”. If this information is correct, than does VGP 024 feature “UMT” from the second Oakland show? And if it does, why the discrepencies in running times between various versions claiming to be complete? (I know dialogue and crowd noise also contribute to the length of the tracks). I compared a couple of other versions (time wise) of “UMT” from other 1969 shows, and they all are around the same length.
With all this information/misinformation, and my own comparison between VGP 024, the Swingin’ Pig version, and the San Diego show, can anyone offer any help as to which version does indeed feature “Under My Thumb” from the second Oakland show, and if VGP 024 is complete??
Okay, this may get confusing! I checked my copy of VGP 024 and “Under My Thumb” (full track) clocks in at 3:24 ; I was under the impression when I got this that both “UMT” and “Jumpin’ Jack Flash” were actually from the Oakland show (“JJF” definately is). I compared “UMT” on VGP 024 to the Swingin’ Pig version, and while both tracks run 3:24 (counting dialogue), there were a couple of differences: from about 1:45 to 1:50 in the song on VGP 024 the sound is muffled and drops out (which sounds to me like it was on the original tape and not a mastering error), which is not present on the Swingin’ Pig version ; and at the end of the song, Jagger says “alright” 3 times, while on the SP version he says it twice, and these “alright”s are spaced much farther apart than on VGP 024. Since the version of “UMT” is supposedly from the San Diego show on Nov. 10, I checked out VGP’s version and there are no sound drop outs nor does Jagger say “alright” (which he says during the last few notes of the song). So I don’t know what version of “UMT” is on VGP 024, especially after Bjarke said “UMT” clocks in at 2:44 on VGP 276 “From San Francisco to Paris” (as mentioned, I got VGP 024 because “UMT” was supposed to be from Oakland) ; VGP 276 is an “Original Master Recording” so maybe it is from the master, if it is, where is “UMT” from VGP 024 from from (most likely the same source as the Swingin’ Pig version, but the differences make me wonder)? Also, does anyone know if VGP 276 sounds better than VGP 024? I thought it would be helpful to check VGP 024 for Dlee, only I think it made matters more confusing!!
DLee, “From San Francisco To Paris” version of Under My Thumb clocks in at 02:44 (only 02:12 apart from the comments/applause after the songs has finished). The 03:23 version you have read about probably features the San Diego version or something.
To both Bjarke & Dannyzero, sorry about having to ask (again), but is it possible that you could let me know exactly what the playing time (track length in minutes:seconds format) of “Under My Thumb” is on the particular versions that you mention? I just got on Friday the Master of Sounds label version of “Live’R Than You’ll Ever Be” (MOS001), and it’s almost nearly complete except for “Under My Thumb”, which is only 2:44 in length & starts right into Mick Jagger’s vocals as it’s beginning, so the entire guitar intro is cut-off, but I’ve discovered via searching on the ‘Net that some other versions have “Under My Thumb” as long as 3:23 (39 seconds longer), which would certainly be considerably better than what I’ve got. Thanks again for any attempts to help (just a little further).
“The Complete Live’r Than You’ll Ever Be” (VGP 024) also contains the complete Oakland 2nd show.
“From San Francisco To Paris” (VGP) features the entire show, apart from the very first seconds of Under My Thumb….those seconds doesn’t exist. There are soundproblems during JJF and UMT – but it’s as complete as can be.
Well, OK, if no one can attempt to answer that question for me, then is anyone at least able to try to let me know of any versions of the legendary audience recording of the 2nd show at Oakland on the 9th that have a pretty-much complete “Under My Thumb”, especially incl. the whole guitar intro at the start mostly intact, and isn’t from the San Diego show the next day on the 10th, such as it is on The Swingin’ Pig & Great Dane releases? How about the VGP, Sister Morphine, OMS, or SODD-013 (bonus CD-R) versions? Again, any help will be greatly appreciated – thanks.
This review is well-appreciated, but I’m more interested in the legendary audience recording of this 2nd show at Oakland on 1969-11-09 – mostly due to its completeness. So anyone know what the definitive versions are, especially ones that aren’t too hard to track down these days? I ask this esp. because I’ve read about the audio problems that existed on the original recordings of “Jumpin’ Jack Flash” & “Under My Thumb”, and how the various boot labels had various ways of dealing with them, so any attempts to provide any helpful advice/suggestions will be well-appreciated – thanks.